Relentless functionality for the everyday. A wardrobe refined through real, practical use. Gradually enthusiasts and customers alike are beginning to recognize the focused obsession of NORMAL EXPERT - a pursuit carried out with quiet determination.
For this Autumn & Winter season, Graphpaper has created two exclusive items that reflect this - a new down vest and a reconfiguration of NORMAL EXPERT'S standard '300 blouson'. Updated through precise adjustments to fit and proportion, each piece demonstrates a clear intent and purpose in its design and production background.
We sit down with the designer - a person who avoids overstatement, communicating things clearly with restraint and conviction.
Interview & Text by Rui Konno
―Today I'd like to focus mainly on this season's exclusive models. This blouson is one that has been carried over from the previous collaborations, correct?
Yes. There are two core items: the 300 Blouson and the vest that pairs with it.
―Previously you mentioned that NORMAL EXPERT names each model based on the expected number of days when it can be worn. But this vest doesn't come with a number, like the '300 Blouson,' does it?
Right. At first, I wanted to assign numbers to all the models. But when something like '125' came up, I felt that people who encountered it without context wouldn't know what it meant. That gap would only cause confusion. So we named this vest 'Float Panel' based on the image of a buoy floating on the sea.
―Hearing that name with the design, I immediately imagined a life jacket.
Well, it does actually float. The filling is goose down.
―So it's down vest, but somehow different?
It is down, but the difference lies in the type of waterfowl. The difference between goose down and the more common duck down is basically the size of the down clusters. Goose has larger clusters than duck, because the bird itself is bigger. Within that, mother goose down is taken from the parent bird, so the clusters become even larger. But since it takes longer for them to grow, it becomes more expensive. There's also a tendency for birds that live in colder regions to produce down with greater loft, which is generally considered higher quality.
―In terms of quality, fill power has become a kind of universal language for down, partly thanks to its role as a symbol in street fashion.
This vest comes in at around 900 to 950 in fill power—just under 1000.
―Nearing 1000 is pretty high spec, right?
It is. At the same time, having high loft also means the down compresses well. With normal down garments, you usually add around 10% feather to help the piece keep its shape. In this vest we reduced the feather content to 5%, and instead packed in goose down to the point where the down supplier was practically saying "please stop" (laughs). We just single-mindedly chased that ultra-cushiony feel.
―I noticed I couldn't feel the feather quills at all - that explains it.
Exactly. That said, when the down is too soft, it starts moving around too much inside, so you can't simply say that "less feather equals a better garment." In this case, I think we struck a good balance by adjusting both the amount of goose down and the way we divided the panels. It's purely focused on tactile comfort.
―Last time you said knowledge from snow sports and techwear is deeply embedded in NORMAL EXPERT. Were you always personally into down?
Actually, I'm the type who overheats easily, so I think I've only bought a down piece for myself once in my entire life. But there's a down vest I made a long time ago that I still wear every winter. I'd wear that down vest under a shell jacket with a sweatshirt underneath, and that was more than enough to get through the winter.
―That's surprising, but in practice, a proper outdoor-grade down jacket rarely gets to perform at full capacity on Japan's main island.
For me, the time when a down vest is really necessary is when the temperature drops below 5°C. So when I was making the Float Panel, I put a lot of thought into "what are we going to do under 5 degrees?" Heat in the human body tends to escape from the top, and the sensation of getting cold when you're dressed usually comes from around the shoulders and head. Also, when you put clothes on, the weight of the garment inevitably crushes the shoulder area. So I wanted to cover that part thoroughly.
―The way you explain temperature and function with such detail feels very NORMAL EXPERT.
If you lean too hard into logic, it stops being fun, but relying only on the user's intuition doesn't feel right either. I always feel that the important thing lies in between those two. If you warm the lungs and heart, your blood and bodily fluids circulate and spread the heat, and you're fine in everyday life. So I wanted something that heats only the areas you really want to warm up, and that you can just shrug off quickly when you get too hot.
―The shell and lining are both very soft fabrics, and despite how it looks, the piece feels incredibly light.
I was very particular about whether that softness was something you could actually feel. Both the shell and lining are nylon, but the fabric is woven from very fine yarns. Normally, when you make a down piece, you use what's called a 'down pack'…
―A separate inner layer that holds the down in place, different from the shell and lining, right?
Exactly. This vest doesn't have that. The down is placed directly under the shell fabric, so you can feel the softness of the down more directly. The fabric itself is made by a company in Fukui, Japan. I first encountered it when I was working in OEM. It's been produced as a standard fabric for around 15 years, and as a fabric for down, I honestly think it's the best. I'd always felt that someday the time would come for me to use it myself, and that's why I chose it for this project.
―NORMAL EXPERT hasn't been around for that many years yet, but this feels like the right timing.
First and foremost, I chose this fabric because I thought the hand-feel mattered more than the appearance. But out of experience, I could more or less visualize the finished form. Of course, when we actually tried it, there were discrepancies between the image in my head and the real thing, but the result ended up pretty close to what I had imagined.
―What differed from your expectations?
Normally, down garments have a seamed shoulder line, but because this fabric is so soft, that area just caved in. The easiest way to describe it is like a hair parting. That created unevenness, so in the final product we made the shoulder one continuous panel from front to back.
―You're right, down garments with uninterrupted shoulder panels are rare.
Right. And then there's the hood. At first, it was detachable with snap buttons. But I couldn't get used to the look of it just hanging down, and I started thinking, maybe the hood could be stored in the pocket once you detach it. We tried a few ideas like that, and ultimately ended up with this design where you roll it up and tuck it into the collar. The collar wasn't wide enough at first, so the hood wouldn't stow away neatly, and when you did manage to fit it, the collar became so packed the zipper wouldn't open. That was probably the toughest part to resolve.
―The fact that none of that struggle appears in the finished piece shows how well-balanced it is.
We also used to have a center seam down the back, but in the end we removed that too. Which of course meant using even more down, at a time when the price of down has gone up yet again this autumn/winter. I did find myself thinking about that… but with so many down pieces already in the world—from Uniqlo to The North Face and beyond—I had to ask myself what kind of down I could make that would justify its existence. That's how I ended up making those decisions.
―Listening to you talk about the standard model, it feels like the perfect moment to transition into discussing the exclusive specifications for Graphpaper. From what I've heard, we requested an even more oversized silhouette, which sounds like an order that connects directly to cost.
That's right. It requires even more down. We discussed that from the start. This is true for other models as well, but with Graphpaper's larger custom orders, depending on the item, the amount of fabric used can be about 1.5 times that of equivalent in our lineup. I feel like that was very obvious this time (laughs).
―I heard the order was for a "larger silhouette that is characteristic of Graphpaper," and based on what you just said, it seems like when the silhouette changes, adjustments must also be made to the functionality.
Well, I've always tended to keep the length on outerwear relatively short so it won't feel restrictive when you sit down. That's true for this blouson as well. It's also common for me to gather the hem so people can shape it the way they like. So in that sense, I think the silhouette for Graphpaper came together pretty smoothly for me. The trickier part was the vest, especially around the shoulders.
―The width and shape of the armholes on this vest are also very unusual in their balance.
On top of that, with a vest the fit depends even more heavily on body type. Once we got the order to make an oversized exclusive version, I must have reworked the balance of the shoulders and hood three or four times. If you just scale it up, the shoulders start to jut out and it ends up looking like a kimono vest. I really wanted a natural roundness at the back of the shoulders, so in the end we added a bit of elastic tension inside. Sometimes it was too strong and we had to redo it again. We tried a lot of different things.
―I hadn't noticed the internal shirring near the armhole.
When there's a bit of roundness there, it naturally sits along the shoulder line. The hem can be cinched with a drawcord, so I think it's easy to fit on a wide variety of body types. In terms of function, we were also careful to prevent it from getting too hot despite the large amount of down. If the back panel or waist area is too close to the body, heat tends to accumulate there, so we had to figure out where to let it escape. Because the body width is generous, breathability naturally increases, and if you get too warm you can just open the hem wide. For someone with an average build, I think it's totally viable to wear an XL from our lineup, or go for the oversized Graphpaper exclusive, wear it big, and then cinch the hem.
―Seeing you in person like this, I can tell you're tall and quite slim. For someone with your build, it sounds like both the item from your lineup and our exclusive could be realistic options.
Yes. I've also had people with bigger frames, and various body types around me, try them on. I think each person can pick the one they prefer. Not long ago I spotted people wearing the blouson out in the city—that's always a great feeling.
―Even in cities where many people wear black, NORMAL EXPERT garments stand out subtly.
Yes. And that reminds me—this may be a detour—but I feel people have been forgetting about color lately.
―Japan especially. I've heard very few cities in the world skew this strongly toward black.
Of course it varies depending on the region, even within Japan, but in Tokyo at least, people who are into fashion really do wear black a lot.
―That said, NORMAL EXPERT's lineup also features a lot of black items.
That's true. I personally wear really bold, high-impact colors as well, but when I was launching the brand and thinking about what the brand color should be, I felt it had to be a dark tone.
―If you hear "a blouson you can wear 300 days a year" and it's bright red, you'd probably think "really…?" (laughs)
(Laughs.) I don't call it "Black" but "Carbon." Black can look almost whitish depending on the material and the way the light hits it, and the shadows it creates can be interesting in their own right. So while black is the core, I'm always thinking about how different textures can create different expressions, or how pairing it with brighter colors can make the overall look feel fresh. That's the mindset behind what I do with NORMAL EXPERT.
―This blouson and vest lineup feels perfect for layering, and it seems like that's something you can really experience firsthand. The blouson's design and construction are carried over completely from the previous season, right?
Yes. If I'm going to state "you can wear this for XX days," I feel I have to test it myself and be convinced. So I'm always looking for areas where we might be able to make fine adjustments. I'm also constantly collecting feedback from people who've bought the pieces, and once that feedback reaches a certain volume, I take that as the cue for an update. I think it's important to understand the current mood from the user's perspective, and also what's happening trend-wise.
―It sounds incredibly difficult to balance a distinctive, sharp point of view in product-making with the willingness to listen to people's opinions.
But manufacturing involves a lot of people. Factories, fabric mills, everyone. Creating a stable cycle for all of those jobs is crucial. If, for whatever reason or someone's convenience, that cycle stops, you end up with "The product was good, but…" and it disappears. The product itself did nothing wrong, but it vanishes from the world. I've seen that happen so many times, and I really don't want that. I don't want to do work that forces someone to overextend themselves.
―That broader environment surrounding the product feels like an essential element of design today.
Exactly. I personally don't have many opportunities to interact directly with end users, but when their voices reach me, I feel like "Okay, the message is getting through." On top of that, I'm still in the process of exploring questions like "What is my own individuality?" and "What's the benefit for people who commission exclusives from me?" I also feel like I'm gradually starting to see the answers. Evaluations are always changing, and sometimes I wonder what things will look like in five years. But if I really pursue the things I myself want, there will always be customers who resonate with that. Over time, I've realized that an environment like that has slowly started to form around me.
NORMAL EXPERT
The designer was born in 1982 in Fukushima Prefecture. Influenced by his father who loved the outdoors, he began skiing at a young age - an experience that became the foundation for his interest in sports and techwear. After working in sales for a streetwear brand and as a graphic designer at an OEM planning company, he spent many years involved in the development of sportswear. When the company was dissolved during the COVID-19 pandemic, he began to solidify his own ideas for manufacturing products. In 2024, he launched NORMAL EXPERT.